"Conversations: Buttons and Liddell," by Chris Carter, ran in the October 1981 issue of Surfing magazine. This version has been edited and shortened. The interview took place at a Dana Point seafood restaurant. Liddell was 24.

 (Looking at the menu) Let's see here, Pacific Red Snapper. Oh, mahi-mahi! That's what I'm going to have.

 I like, but I think I'll have mahi. Swordfish betta? No way!

 Wha? Mahi is good, but swordfish is unreal, brah. How do they cook it? Like, grilled?

 I eat shark. Hey brah, what do you think, the shark eats you, you're gonna have to eat the shark too.

 You guys are wired. What time did you get to sleep last night? I called at 11:30 this morning and you were still asleep.

 I didn't get to sleep until 5:30 in the morning, brah. I look over at this guy and he's out. Except I couldn't even go to sleep. I was laying there listening to my Walkman. Bob Marley. I got every song wired already. (Breaking into song) “Oh what a rat race, yeah!"

 Ahhhh . . . June? (laughs from Mark). I mean May. June?

 Eleventh of May we came back from Japan. (Laughs again from Mark).

 After. We came back the first week of May.

 Yeah. No! We stayed two weeks at home, I remember.

 Yeah exactly two weeks. Exactly two weeks. I know.

 I know, I know. But when you have money . . .

 Yeah. We thought it was going to be like ten grand for first place. Everyone tells us, "Yeah, ten grand contest!" We go, "Wow!" We get there and it's three grand. Such a ripoff. Waves are terrible. Nobody on the beach. It was terrible.

 No, Bruce Jackson. Hey, Bruce Jackson surfs good in small waves.

 Singers. They're good, brah. Hey man, they're brothers (laughs).

 Excellent. Punta Rocas. Punta Hermosa, Senoritas, and the island, brah. The Isla. It's like a Makaha without the backwash.

 What about the Peruvian surfers? Are they hot?

 They've got their spots wired. They rip, brah. Big waves, too. Hey, it gets twenty feet there. Like Country, brah.

 It's different, though. You put those guys in Hawaiian waves and they might choke. Hawaii, it's like top to bottom. In Peru, you don't know where the bottom is sometimes. It's like, “Where is it? Give me your Vuarnets, brah." (laughs).

 How come you guys went to Peru instead of Australia with the pro tour?

 My sponsor wouldn't pay my way to Australia. I've never been there. Gotta get over there someday.

 I was going to Australia, but everything was last minute. I changed my mind. I'm glad I didn't go, too. The waves weren't that good this year.

 You did good there last year. Didn't you take third in the Straight Talk contest?

 I pulled a tendon in my knee earlier this year and it was still sore, so I just said forget it and rested awhile. Then we went to Peru. Hey, it gets tired surfing with all those guys, the pro guys. It's not fun. It's just dog-eat-dog.

 Do you think the judges don't appreciate your style of surfing?

 Oh, no way. I think they love it. (Turning to Buttons) Hey, if you went down there they would love you. Those guys are into that new wave, y'know. I almost beat Rabbit down there the first time I went. They gave it to him because he won the year before.

 Do you think the top IPS guys are creative enough in their surfing, or are they too contest-oriented?

 Yeah, some of 'em are real conservative, man. You see 'em out in the water and they're just trying things for contests. That's fine, though. If that's what they're into.

 Does competition mean anything to you guys at all? Do you like to compete?

 Sometimes it's fun. You gotta be in the mood. But to me, contests are not the best thing in surfing. It's not even surfing, in a way. Lotta times those guys don't even surf their best in the contests. Too careful. Conservative.

 How 'bout you Buttons, do you like to compete?

 I like it okay. I never used to, but I like it. That's where the money is and I just think, "I gotta eat, I gotta eat!" (laughs from everyone).

 That's where the glory is. There's no money.

 How come you guys aren't consistently winning in Hawaii, where you surf the most?

 Well, one thing is—we gotta go through the Trials, and in the Trials the waves are always junk. I don't know, we do good now and then, but I guess it's not our time or something. That's why I went to Australia last year, huh? To do good enough in the contests there so that I wouldn't have to go through the trials next year. I was supposed to be in all the contests in Hawaii last year, right? But the organizers let Larry Bertlemann and Louie Ferreira, guys that were way below me in the IPS, in before me. The IPS just burned me. I couldn't say nothing. What am I gonna do? It's me against them, the sponsors. But they burned me.

 I got third in the Trials last year, so I got to surf in all the contests. Took 13th at Pipe, and 5th at the World Cup.

 Someone told me that when the waves get big, that you guys don't like to surf.

 We love big Pipeline more than big Sunset because Sunset's got too many guys taking off. Pipeline's a one-man wave, y'know? It's been good this year. Hey, we were out there on big days. Insane days. You never see any of the big pros out there on those days. I'm not saying they're scared, but when it's 15-feet you don't see most of those guys. We were there every single day. Pipeline was our hangout. Before, we never used to show our faces, didn't like the scene, but now it's a different story.

 If I have to go and compete, I'm not afraid. Well, I mean everyone's afraid. Everyone has fear. But for me, it's more the pressure of contests, not the waves.

 So you're just as confident in big waves as you are in small ones?

 Nah, a little less. But I'll still charge.

 I don't know how we got that small-wave reputation. I remember surfing 15-foot Sunset a long time ago. We charged it.

 Maybe it's because you guys surf so well in small waves?

 If you could choose a favorite wave and a favorite size, what would it be?

 I'm going to be on the South Shore in June. What should I expect?

 Yeah, I'll just paddle around with you guys and hope I get some waves.

 Hey, where we surf, we rule. Kaisers, y'know. That's our spot. So if you're with us, they're not going to mess with you. No way.

 Let's say I wasn't with you guys. Would it be hard to get waves?

 Nah, there are so many spots on the south side.

: Don't be surprised if they vibe you, though. It's silly, just ignore them. Just ignore it.

 If that happens you just say, "Hey Buttons, this guy is hassling me,” and I take care of him. Fix his ass, boy.

 I hear the Kaiser's parking lot is a pretty heavy place. Kinda dangerous to hang around.

 Last year it was. Last year was the heaviest ever. Machine guns, everything, you name it. Then everybody got busted and thrown in jail.

 New mayor, new prosecutor. They got everybody. No more breaks.

 Back to surfing. How come, in every article on the South Shore, it's always "Buttons and Liddell." We rarely see photos of anyone else.

 Because we're the most consistent of all of them. Whenever there's a swell, we're there early. Dawn Patrol. We surf three times a day. Hard, y'know? We put in a good 12 hours a day. Until 6:00 or 7:00 in the evening.

 What it is, is we get a lot of respect there. We're not wave hogs or nothing, brah. It's not like we go, "Hey get outta da way." We go, "Hey go ahead, man. Geevum, brah."

Mark Liddell

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