"Mysto Man," Warren Bolster's interview with Steve Lis, ran in the December 1973 issue of Surfing. Lis was 23.

Just living by the ocean all my life, it was an easy path to follow. Playing in the ocean every day you find that surfing is a game you can play all the time.

What made you get into kneeriding as opposed to stand-up surfing?

When I started out, surfboards were really big and I was a very small kid. I just went each step thinking that eventually I'd be a full-on stand-up surfer, going from bodysurfing to bellyboarding, and from kneeboarding to the full stand-up bit. But the more I got into it, the more kneeriding seemed a better way to go. Plus there weren’t a lot of people doing it then and it was a really easy thing to do.

Was anybody around here kneeriding, or were you the first?

A few friends who I went to elementary school with.

Four. Two fish kneeboards, a 5'1" and a 5'5". Also a Skip Frye egg and a 10'4" Hobie. I'm working on two new fish, a 4'7" and a 5'5". I even have my museum piece—the paipo bellyboard I used to win my first surfing contest in 1968.

You’ve been credited for designing the fish and I was wondering what thought processes went into designing it.

Lack of a board that performed as I desired prompted me to design the fish. Chris Prowse of La Jolla was riding a split-tail board and Brian Kennley was working with John Mel on a similar board. That all helped influence me in developing the fish kneeboard. As time went by I experimented with all kinds of boards—roundtails, pintails and flex tails—but I always came back to riding a fish. The fish gives me everything I could ever want out of foam and resin: speed, maneuverability, and a good feel on a wave.

Right now I’m into thin. I’ve gone down to just two inches.

A lot of guys lately have been getting longer fish to compensate for the slower paddling. Does this affect the performance much?

At the moment, yes, there is a difference in performance. But the longer fish will probably perform equal to the original once the templates and curves are worked out.

Would there be any benefit from a flexible fish?

Faster reaction on turns and more feeling throughout the ride. You'd probably get more sensations of how the water was moving and how the pressures were being exerted.

I know you’ve been experimenting on a Venturi effect fish; how’s that working out?

The Venturi effect fish was the brainchild of Jeff Ching. Jeff wanted me to make him a board with a Venturi curve on the bottom between the fins. This gives the tail more lift and creates more positive turning. Our first attempt at adapting this curve to the fish wasn’t entirely successful but the feel was there. More work is being done to improve its performance.

What are the main differences between a fish kneeboard and a Greenough-style spoon?

Spoons are terribly slow on the takeoff. They just don’t have the immediate speed you can get from a fish. Even if you have just a fraction of a second better paddling with a fish, that flash will allow you to get a quick top turn off that you just can’t do on a spoon.

You need a certain kind of wave for a spoon, right?

You need a slow down-the-line type of takeoff. It can’t be an immediate thing. You've got to work up to the speed on a spoon, but once you get there they go fast.

Do you think a kneeboard can project a longer turn than a surfboard or the other way around?

I don’t know; I think it pretty much works out about the same.

How fast do you think a kneeboarder can go, flat-out?

There's no way of judging; it’s a flash. You're going so fast the whole thing is just a flash.

Is any doubt that a kneerider goes faster than a surfer?

On a clean, hollow, lined-up wave, I would say that a kneerider can go faster. I'm pretty sure he can. But when the wave is peakier and the surface condition is a little rough, a surfboard takes over just by having more size. A surfboard cuts the chop better. The wind resistance is less because a surfboard is larger and heavier and your body can take the shocks a lot better.

I’ve seen a lot of kneeriders with handles on the rails. How practical are these?

I personally feel that handles are a complete goon item. From my own experimenting with them, I see no function. You can break your wrist, you can screw the board up and generally get wiped out because of a handle. It’s like a goon cord.

It seems like having a handle would sort of force you to do one particular type of turn. Do you change the position of your hand on the rail when you do a turn?

Yes, a handle completely disorients you. It makes the board seem narrower, higher, and just gives you a false security of being able to hold on during almost any circumstance, which you can’t actually do.

How big are the biggest waves you’ve ridden?

I guess 12' is the largest wave I’ve tried, but when you kneeboard waves that size or bigger it’s probably better to stand because your body can’t take the shock in the knees. Standing, the shock is taken through the whole body.

What do you think is the smallest surf you could enjoy riding on your knees? There is a limit, isn’t there?

No. There really isn’t a limit. Every size is fun, it’s just a matter of having the right board in the right situation. But for me, as far as kneeboarding, my personal limit is two feet. Anything under that and I break out the longboard.

It gives you a greater range of surfing pleasure. You can go out when most people are completely going funk-dog on the whole thing. You have fun because you're high and dry and it’s no sweat catching waves. You can catch a swell way out there and just cruise in doing full pelican moves.

Some guys ride longboards to torture other people. I don’t think you’re into that, are you?

No. That’s not the reason, but you can sure as hell can do it (laughter all around). No, I’m not out there to work those guys. I just think longboarding is a good part of surfing because it gives you a better outlook on the whole thing. You see how surfing works from no energy to full energy.

Who’s doing the most research and development in the rebirth of the longboard?

Skip Frye is doing the most of anyone as far as trying to tune a board that’s over 9'6" to where it can be totally loose, easy to handle, and all the other good points of a shortboard, but also have the paddling surfability of a longboard.

Who are some of the stand-up surfers you most enjoy watching?

Jimmy Lucas is fantastic. Skip Frye is really enjoyable; he’s just plain fun to watch. There are endless names, but those two stand out.

A lot of people don’t know how to appreciate a kneeboarder’s style. You know, "They all look the same to me.” Do you have feelings on this?

Most kneeboarders do have similar styles. There seems to be a lack of originality and creativity among kneeboard riders. Then again, there's not as much that can be done above the waist, in terms of style, compared to what you can do with the whole body, like when you're stand-up surfing.

In the Islands, Brian Kennley shows the most style. Also, Bunker Spreckels when he kneeboards. In San Diego, I'd say John Brockway, Bob Ward and Mark Skinner. There are some stand-up surfers becoming quite proficient: Jeff Ching, Skip Frye, and Larry Gephart.

This may be a heavy question, but what do you think about localism?

More power to them! Everybody is a local someplace.

Do you think people should pretty much stay in their own areas and not surf anywhere else?

This is a touchy question. I like to go surfing all over the place, but I do see with the crowd scene the way it is now that its kind of tricky.

Do you think that if people continued to travel but didn’t rip others off that it would make for better vibes?

Yeah, I think that we need to have a whole new idea of surfing. Right now there seems to be a lack of respect for pretty much everything. A lack of respect for the ocean and your fellow surfers. People just don’t respect anything anymore.

You're known as kind of a mysto-man; what do you attribute this to?

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