Drew Kampion interviewed Dick Brewer for the October 1971 issue of SURFER. "Brewer is one of surfing's great contradictory characters," Kampion later wrote, "at once vague and precise, pragmatic and philosophical, self-absorbed and spiritual." Brewer was 35 when he talked with Kampion.

What's happening in the world of surfboard building?

The so-called "underground" boardmakers are, in reality, the workers from the major surfboard firms going into business for themselves. There are a thousand surfboard shops now where there used to be a hundred. The industry is in better shape than ever, it’s just that all the business is no longer in the hands of a few.

What was your experience in that whole thing, in terms of going from a big manufacturer to working for yourself?

Working in an organization was difficult because it's hard to understand the motivation of the businessman. So I ended up shaping boards, outside my regular job, in order to experiment. The surfers on the beach bought reject blanks and brought them to me and [Mike] Hynson and [Mike] Diffenderfer to have their boards made underground. As a result, the public, as well as the surfers, lost confidence in what we call the surfing establishment. Is it any wonder that surfboard shops are ending up back in the garage where it all started?

Wouldn’t the manufacturers pay for experimental boards?

The profit motive. You never known if an experimental board is going to sell. But the kids wanted to try new things.

Tell me about the mini-gun, how that got started

The first mini-gun ever made, it was Gary Chapman who bought the blank, a reject, out of his own pocket. I shaped it for nothing. Gary glassed it himself. The manufacturer I was working for [Bing Surfboards] fired me the next day. That's how I ended up back in the garage.

Isn’t there a danger of creating a new establishment, and then a new generation gap?

Definitely. The Herbie Fletchers of today will be the Hobies of tomorrow.

What other surfers have you been making boards for during this underground movement?

Gary Chapman, Joey Cabell, Jock Sutherland, Reno Abellira and David Nuuhiwa, among others.

All those surfers rode boards that you shaped?

Yes. They pay me for my labor and keep my boards creative. These young minds are the finest the sport has ever seen.


I’ve been influenced by Bob McTavish, Gerry Lopez, Keith Paull, and Terry Fitzgerald. Bob Shepherd taught me to shape, and Joe Quigg taught him. I also learned a lot from Pat Curren, Mike Hynson and Terry Martin.

What contribution have different people made towards keeping your boards creative?

Gary Chapman was an inspiration to me. I made him a nine-foot board, and he just wanted me to keep building smaller ones. I still use Gary Chapman templates that he and I worked out three years ago. Gary, in '67, had the first mini-gun. The Australians had mini-hotdog boards. There was a difference!

Joey Cabell had me build flat-bottomed surfboards. He was the first surfer brave enough to want a board with a straight edge along the bottom the way Pat Curren had made them years ago. Joey always brought drawings and designed his own surfboards. During the early development of the shortboard, he encouraged me to make my boards lighter and lighter. Joey is responsible for light boards in big waves.

Jock Sutherland pushed me towards practical, functional surfboards that did functional maneuvers; boards that could be sold to the public. Jock insisted on paying me for my labor, as did Joey, and always treated me as a gentleman, as did Joey. Those two, along with Owl Chapman, are the greatest big-wave riders of today.

Reno Abellira’s boards are the most advanced of anyone I shape for. Reno is very proficient in yoga, just a super-aware super-limber human being. He is one of the most intelligent people in surfing, but people overlook him because he is so quiet and humble. Four years ago when the Aussies claimed to have shut everyone down at Honolua Bay on the biggest day of the year, Nat broke his board in half on the first wave. The rest of the Australians never went out, and Reno was the star. Little Reno! I was there! Reno was responsible for low rails. He had them in February of 1969, and has had them ever since.

David Nuuhiwa is the most creative surfer in the world. He’s more aware than the rest of us. He’s also more limber. David can put both feet behind his head, and he doesn’t even do yoga. David’s father was the number-one karate expert in the world. David’s father is an aware person. Aware people raise aware children. I’ve found that the best surfers come from the most aware households. David will take any board to its limits in a few days. I spent several months working with David in California last summer, and I can say that David is the finest surfer on the Mainland. David has helped me a lot with nose designs.

You mentioned McTavish earlier. What did he show you?

Bob McTavish showed me how to make a spiral vee. I’ve used the McTavish vee ever since. Bob told me that Midget softened up the corners of the vee and blended it, but that McTavish was largely responsible for the vee. The old hot curl boards had vee, but McTavish executed the design in its modern form. Joey Cabell made it flat, Herbie Fletcher kicked the tail, and Brewer smoothed the whole thing out.

Gerry Lopez, Reno and I worked together at Surf Line Hawaii until about a year ago. Gerry has been helpful to RB all the way through, as his boards were always close to mine, but with an accent on maneuverability. Gerry’s the guy that’ll make it littler and make it work. He was a primary influence on the return to natural rocker and soft, low rails.

Keith Paull shaped the first low-railer for big waves since I shaped one for Mike Kuntz about a year before. We’d already passed it up, and nobody wanted to go back there except Jock and Keith. Reno had asked me to shape him one, but Keith picked up a planer, borrowed a template and did it in my shaping room.

Besides yourself, what other shapers have been influential over the past few years?

Mike Hynson, Les Potts, Midget [Farrelly] and McTavish. The rest were usually shaping something I’d passed up.

Yep. Diffenderfer does a well-polished four-year-old trip.


What should the surfer's relationship be to the guy who is making his boards?

Greek Surfboards gave David four boards last summer. That's it. To really tune David in, he should get four boards a week.

He can ride a board it to its limits in two days. He’ll figure out a board's strengths and weaknesses that fast. He'll know exactly what needs to happen next. Changes in a surfboard design have to be made incrementally. That is, if you change the nose and the tail at the same time, how do you know which of those changes affected the board? One thing only should change with each board, so you don’t have a lot of variables. David makes this possible because he pushes a board to its limits so rapidly. Surfing has never been that precise, but it can be.

Is the North Shore still design Mecca for surfboards?

For myself, I'm more creative on Kauai. I find it necessary to come to the North Shore to expose my new shapes and get credit from the guys on the beach, from the magazines, for my design refinements.

What do you think you’ve contributed to surfing?

I shaped a mini-gun for Gary Chapman in July 1967, a round tail for Jackie Eberle in November 1967, a mini-gun with dropped rails all the way around for Mike Kuntz in December 1967. I shaped the pintail mini-gun that Joey Cabell won the Makaha I Championships with in 1967, and I shaped the board that Jock won the Duke on that same year. I shaped the seven-pound mini-gun that Reno rode in the 1968 World Championships. And I shaped Gerry Lopez a 6' 4" mini-gun in May 1968. I shaped Rusty Starr a low-railer in January 1969; shaped Reno a three-fin board in December 1970. My boards have won three Makaha championships, and two Duke championships.

Tom Stone, Owl Chapman, Jackie Baxter, Brian Surrat, Tommy Winkler, Boobie Jones, Sammy Hawk, Reno Abellira, Liko Hookano, and Alan Kaikaka.

Who do you consider the best surfers in the world?

I consider Jackie Baxter, David Nuuhiwa, and Reno Abellira to be the best surfers in the world. I’ve seen them do things that other people can’t do. And I’ve seen Barry and Jock do things that other people can’t do.

What about Hakman? A lot of people say he’s the best on the North Shore.

Hakman is on perfectly polished four-year-old trip. He just changed to low rails. It’s the truth! In 1962, I shaped Jeff a 9'3" by 19" 22-lb. mini-gun. Jeff weighed 89 pounds. If a larger man had tried it, surfing would have jumped ahead by five years. But no one was aware enough at that time to ride it.

BK has more power than anybody. Seven years ago he was doing roller coasters just like the ones he’s doing now. His style was the same on a longboard. He never changes, he just gets better and better and better.

Jackie Baxter is better than Nat Young, but Nat is one of the most aware people I’ve seen. He gets a trip wired. Reno is the most polished surfer. Gerry Lopez is the most spontaneous.

Which spot has the best wave for a surfboard designer to see his boards in action?

For me, in small waves, it’s Pakala [Kauai]. A perfect left, which is my direction, plus it’s near my house, and it breaks a lot in summer. I know it. Got it wired! For big waves, Hanalei Bay [Kauai] tells me everything I want to know because it’s faster and bigger than Honolua Bay, and more consistent.

Cabell. Nobody touches Cabell at Hanalei.

I must concern myself with my life, and my boards. As far as my boards go, I’m on top in that trip and I know it. I feel confident in my field. In capitalism, the strong survive and the weak fail. That's true in evolution as well, and it's true in surfing. I feel strong. I’ve been in surfing for a long, long time, and I’ll be in surfing for a long, long time to come.

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