"Phyllis O'Donell: Without Precedent," by Mike Davis, was published in a 2000 issue of Pacific Longboarder. This version has been shortened and slightly edited.

When and where did you start surfing and why?

I started in 1960, mainly because my sister’s boyfriend got a board. I tried to have a bit of a paddle on the thing and nearly freaked.

I didn’t catch a wave. I just wanted to paddle the thing. Her boyfriend lived in Newcastle and he used to leave the board at our place. Like most Sydneysiders we liked the beach and bodysurfed a bit. Anyway, I decided to take the board to the beach one day and try to surf.

Well, I started rather late and I quit rather early.

I got it from Nock and Kirby, a department store in Sydney. I didn’t know about different boards, board manufacturers, or anything.

That, I really don't remember. It might have been about 30 pounds. 

Surfing was a man's sport in those days—a lot different from today. What was said when you showed up at the beach with your board?

I really didn’t take that much notice. All I wanted to do was learn—just paddle the thing, because I knew I’d eventually stand up. I don’t think they really took that much notice because I was older than most of them. When I started to get the hang of getting onto a wave and standing up, then some of the chaps noticed me. Some of the other girls used to surf but they were only 'round about 15 and I was about 23, I suppose. At that point (the boys) started to give me a hard time. Some blokes used to aim for me. I didn’t know you could turn the jolly things (surfboards) then. I’d freak and let the board go and then I’d have to catch a wave and swim in, and lug the board out again. Then I met Snow McAllister. He took me under his wing and started helping me.

Yes, we remained good friends until his death.

Who were your main influences as your surfing developed?

As I progressed, there was Midget, of course, who was a role model for a lot of us. He was around a lot. Then there was Nat. I used to like that really nice chap from Cronulla—Bobby Brown. He used to mix it up a bit. He used to do tricks and stuff. He was a really beautiful surfer. There was a pile of chaps when I first started.

Who were some of the other girls from that era that used to surf?

Down in Sydney at that time, there were really quite a few. They were mainly young, 15, 16, and they were very good surfers, actually. They used to swear like little troopers. I wasn't used to that. The guys would get out there and they'd swear. They'd call you X, Y and Z. Then these girls surfers would mimic the guys, and after listening to the blokes and the girls, after about two years, I started doing it as well. I ended up with a very, ah, colorful vocabulary.

Your surfing was powerful but smooth and fluid. Where did it come from?

Thank you for the compliment. But I don't know really. Just persistence, I suppose.

Were your boards built especially for you?

After that first Nock and Kirby special, I went to Gordon Woods. From then on, or as long as I was in Sydney, I had Gordon make my boards. I really hadn't done anything [in competition] at that time, so I bought them just like everyone else.

Oh yes, much later, and you know it was much harder for girls then. Gee, I didn't really get sponsored until I went to work for Dewey Weber Surfboards, in 1966, after I went to California. Later, when l came up here to live in Kingscliff, Joe Larkin used to do my boards. But no, it was always a cash job.

At any stage, did you envisage the sport as you see it now?

In terms of sponsorship, you mean? No. In order to get anything in those days you had to be right up on top, and even then it was hard, especially for a woman or a girl. I guess you don’t have to be highly rated at all now to get some of the things, but it’s like any sport.

As a surfer, who did you try to emulate in your surfing? Women surfers of any caliber were rather a rarity here in the early 1960s.

No one in particular, as far as the women. It's a fact that women aren't as strong as men. They’re built differently—different hips, the whole thing. Mainly, I studied the men.

There was Midget—in the '60s, he was the man. I always liked Nat. In California, there were quite a few. I worked for Dewey and he was dynamic! I used to really enjoy watching Peter Drouyn, Andrew McKinnon, Wayne Bartholomew, and of course Michael Peterson. Of the women, I always thought Gail Couper was extremely good. It’s a shame she never won a world title. She was, and probably still is, a fantastic surfer. My great friend Josette Largadere, Joey, is still surfing hot and she’s now, what, 53. I was great friends with Linda Benson, and Joyce Hoffman was phenomenal, and Joey Hamasaki was just unbelievable!

Oh, Margo was fantastic! I first met her when she was just 13. She was a little up-and-comer. She became an incredible champion—very gifted. 

The Sunn sisters, all of them were just wonderful, especially Rell. I met her at the 1966 World Titles when she was a young, shy girl. You could hardly get a word out of her. But the whole family Kula, Martha, were just fantastic! They're all just so natural, with so much ability. I also really always thought Pam Burridge was tops over here in Australia. Not only a fantastic surfer but a nice girl, one of the best ambassadors we’ve ever had. 

In 1964, you became the first women's world champion. Did it change your life?

I was living in Banora Point [near the Queensland border] at that time, and it would have been more beneficial career-wise if I'd moved back to Sydney after winning the world title, but I wouldn’t do that. I had a good job in the local bowling alley, where I was assistant manager. I worked two days and three evenings each week so I could surf a lot. I wrote a surfing column for the 

 So all told I was doing fine. It was just a different time. I had to work, while the girls now can just surf and train.

Surfing has taken some weird turns in the past and dropped some really outstanding people by the wayside. Who do you think would have been the world’s best surfer if things hadn’t changed so dramatically with the advent of the shortboard in 1967? Would surfing be the same today?

It's not the kind of thing I’ve ever thought about before. I personally loved the new shortboard era. I never stopped to see who didn't make the evolution, if you like.

When did you pull back from competitive surfing?

1974. It was the Australian Titles (at Burleigh). I was expected to do well. They kept holding the event back, waiting for the surf to get better. I forget what age I was. I must have been right into my 30s. Sitting and waiting that morning, all we did was eat, eat, eat. Finally the surf got a little better and the contest started. I had my board and we were going out off the rocks. A wave came along and I sat down on the rocks; I was so full I couldn't get up. I sat there with whitewater all over me going: “You silly old bird, what are you doing in this?" It was just after that I decided to give it up. I'd had enough—11 years of it. I was up against girls who were 10 or 15 years younger. I knew it was time to quit.

In Queensland, it was Kim McKenzie. Gail Couper, of course. Before Kim and between Gail and myself there was Judy Trim from Dee Why, an excellent surfer, a real natural, a Dee Why girl. After that, I kind of lost track. 

Surfing is a creative endeavor. What do you do to satisfy those creative urges when you’re not surfing? Art, reading, writing, poetry, photography?

My favorite would have to be Malibu. Noosa used to be great in the old days. Ma Bendall would ring me up and I'd come. I like the point surfs, but I like Duranbah. Kirra on its day was like Malibu, also Rincon. There were quite a few breaks in Hawaii I used to like.

There are certain memories of a special day, a special wave that we always go back to as a benchmark. What’s yours? One wave you'd like to ride again and again? You know the one.

My first wave at Malibu, in 1966. A chap dropped in front of me and I said, "Get off my blah, blah, blah wave!” He got that much of a shock that he pulled right off. Nobody swears over there, or not like here anyway. The American girls certainly didn't. They’re a little more vocal now, though, I hear.

There's a lot of discussion about traditional versus modern longboarding. What are your feelings? What impresses you most?

My focus has changed. I do like the modern shortboards. I like watching that kind of surfing on TV. It’s still new and exciting. Don’t get me wrong, I loved surfing the longboards, but when shortboards came along, that became surfing to me. I actually finished my career on shortboards. I think it’s great to see the young kids on the longboards these days, but I still really like shortboarding, it's so exciting.

Do you have any advice for female surfers?  

Definitely. Just get out there and do it, have a good time, enjoy it. 

Phyllis O’Donell

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