John Grissim's interview with Ted Spencer, "When I Surf I Dance for Krishna," ran in the August 1974 issue of Tracks, when Spencer was 25. "About two years ago," Grissim wrote in his intro, "while at the height of prominence as one of the country’s top surfers, [Ted] quietly dropped out of active involvement in the sport. Friends reported he had moved into a Hare Krishna temple, had cut his hair and donned saffron robes, and had given up surfing (and sex) entirely. It was a dramatic change for a man who had long been regarded as an active, highly visible competitive surfer. In recent months Ted has re-entered the surfing world, albeit tentatively."

This version has been slightly edited and shortened.

Yeah, that’s my karma, I guess. I was born in a Sydney hospital. I was on display one day (laughs) and some people came along and picked me up. I've got one brother two years older.

Have you lived in the Pittwater Bay area all your life?

My father has had two houses for some time, one of them out here [in Pittwater]. We used to come out from Sydney on the weekends a lot. He's retired now. Used to be a surgeon.

What kind of school upbringing did you have?

I went to public schools, three different ones, as my parents changed houses. When I was twelve I went to the Sydney Church of England Grammar School. I did five years, then went to art school.

You mentioned earlier that art school wasn't that satisfying.

I couldn’t stand the regimentation, even though it was to a lesser degree than church school. I didn’t like organizations where people are always telling me what to do. And so I just naturally went from there to full-on surfing where there was much more freedom. In surfing, there still had to be structure; there had to be discipline to surf well and progress. But I had to impose that on myself. It becomes a personal thing and that is what satisfies me about surfing. It's up to me what happens.

I started at age 16. Went surfing with a friend from school. He had just got a surfboard. His mother came around and picked me up and we went to Palm Beach. He went out and I went swimming. Then he lent me the board and I vaguely remember paddling out and just sitting there. A pretty little wave just came in, just a hump. It didn’t have a wall. I was in the right position, I guess, so I paddled in and slipped down in front of it. The wave was glassy, the sun was shining on it, and I was pretty attracted to the feeling I got. Although, after that, I didn’t surf much for several months. Then I got a board for Christmas. I remember my parents bought it and hid it in the house. I could smell the fiberglass but couldn’t find the board (laughs). It was on top of a tall cupboard, not in or under it where I’d looked. So I surfed up here all summer and then down in Manly where I was going to school. Back then it wasn't too crowded, except when the waves were good.

Yeah, feeling the energy seemed quite natural.

Nine feet. Made of foam and had a half-inch-wide redwood stringer down the middle. I probably had that board for about five months, then sold it to get another one.

Australia was developing its first surf stars around that time, wasn’t it?

Yeah. Midget Farrelly and Nat Young were heavies. And Mick Dooley. They were essentially just guys who had surfed a lot, but then it became a whole different scene.

Did you start following the surfing scene?

Yeah, I was taken with it at the time. Idolising surfing stars. And wanting to know them and find out what they were like. Maybe expecting too much from people and getting squashed by them, being more or less innocent.

Yeah, and it was really a bummer in a way. Coming up in the surfing world I wasn’t so much aware of any external changes in my surfing style, but all of a sudden people were saying things like, “There goes Ted Spencer.”

I wasn’t so much in control. It happened and I went along with it. I had nothing else to do. Like you’ve got an image and you end up projecting it. Everyone projects some kind of image. That is if you’ve got nothing better to do; if you’ve got nothing deeper [inside you]. You end up projecting the hero image, the good guy image, the tough-guy image, the mellow image, or the stoned image.

I don’t know. I was just being taken along by the tide, without having much understanding or much control over my direction. I don’t feel I was pushing too much of a trip, except in surfboard design. I was aiming for the perfect board. I was very into that actually.

I recall hearing someone describe you in those days as one of the up-and-coming young animals among surf stars.

I guess that was it, yeah. It was definitely cool to be an animal (laughs). But I never made it to the top of the animal pile. I didn’t have it in me. I mean, obviously, being an animal didn’t solve anyone’s problems, or produce better people. It created an era in Australian surfing which, looking back, was really pretty gross. People were running over everybody else and nobody really cared about anybody. It was an animal period; a very selfish period.

Did you find that a lot of name surfers proved disappointing as people?

Yes. I had a pretty sheltered upbringing and was pretty innocent in a lot of respects, so I was inclined to be led by these people whom I respected from a distance. And I was still led by them even though they didn't live up to my expectations. Over a period of time, I was disillusioned by the surf star who was supposed to be God, who was set up as God, the greatest, and who didn’t fulfill that position.

Did you encounter a lot of ego-tripping, a lot of arrogance?

Yeah, but I got into that, too. I’m proud and arrogant along with the rest of them. But the actual lack of sensitivity where I perhaps expected it the most was one thing that blew me out a bit. But I'm sure I fell into all those things as well. I became a part of it. Today I feel I'm able to cast off a lot of things, a lot of . . . brutal approaches and insensitive ways of living.

What was it like for you to shift to a shortboard?

The first shift I made was from a 9'6" to an eight-footer. And like everybody else I experienced a great deal more freedom. There’s a different sort of person attracted to surfing today. It is more of a subtle sport. Before, [when the boards were big and heavy], a more brutal approach was necessary to wield the things around on a wave. It was more like football where surfers were giants, huge builds and so on. They were out there for exercise and to conquer a wave. But after you’ve surfed a while you lose that thing of conquering waves.

It was definitely harder for the brutal surfers, but it that the change in board design coincided with a time when there was also a change in lifestyles. Like vegetarianism was a big change in my life, especially with the shortboards. I found it kept you lighter. It didn’t promote such a giant body and it cleared your head and was better for advancing one's consciousness. I was less aggressive. I felt more sensitive to not only water energy but to people. The people I respect the most in surfing today are those that made it through that period and got into those new approaches to greater awareness.

While filming with Paul Witzig, you traveled with Nat for a while, didn't you?

We first went to, let’s see . . . Rome (laughs). It was insane. We had seven boards for three people, all crammed into one tiny Fiat bus that blew up. Then we went up the south coast of France.

Not really. The French surfers never hit the beach until around ten. Then we went to Morocco where 

 surfed. A lot of people on the beaches but no one out on the waves. Then we went to Puerto Rico for the World Contest.

Not well. Didn’t even get out of my heat (laughs).

Then back here I learned how to shape boards. Bob McTavish taught me how. I never really got into it but I hung around his shop for a while, learning. I’m getting back into it now ’cos I want to shape my own board. I haven’t shaped much for the last two years. Haven’t surfed that much either. But I’m sure there’s a more personal feeling between you and wave if you’ve shaped your board.

Was there a specific type of board design that you locked onto when you got intensely into surfing?

Easy-handling boards, not complicated, rather simple. I don’t really like radical boards although I’ve had a lot of them. I once had a board that was about six feet, with two-and-a-half inches of vee in the tail. It was nineteen inches wide, with a round front and a round tail, with two fins. I thought I’d improve it, so I peeled the glass off the bottom and added concave. It was really weird. It was supposed to lift you up and fly like a hovercraft, (laughs) Ridiculous. Of course, it didn’t work, a total waste of time (more laughs).

None. Ha! (Huge laughs.) I’ve got a foam blank I bought this morning, that’s all.

Did psychedelics, or any other drug experience, affect your attitude toward surfing?

Oh yeah, it affected me greatly. It gave me an insight and an appreciation of the energy underlying all things, the energy I was trying not to fight when I surfed. But [the drugs] pretty much annihilated me physically. Maybe it wouldn’t have if it could have been controlled (laughs). But, y’know, you just want to get right into it. So I got into the whole scene and got paranoid and all the symptoms. I preferred dope to booze.

I stopped years ago because I found I couldn’t surf. ’Cos to surf really well you've really got to be physically fit, really fit. The physical challenges of surfing have to be overcome, otherwise you’re fighting yourself even before you get on a wave. [Certain kinds of drugs] have some value to people. It mellows some people out. But for myself, it just physically annihilated me—plus I’d get high, but then I'd come down and have to face reality again (laughs).

Do you feel that the sea has any kind of personality?

No. That’s a surfer’s idea, I know, but I’ve never got behind it. People raving about the ocean as the womb—I just couldn’t be bothered,

Is there any type of surf that you prefer?

I like quality waves. I’ve never surfed giant waves. About 15' is the largest. Really big surf can get dangerous.

Have you ever been badly wiped out in big surf?

No, I never have. Because I’ve never really gotten into big surf that much. In the Islands, I only surfed up to 15'.

I think they're valid. They’re a part of surfing and they bring surfers together and you can make money on them. And I suppose they’re good for the sport. But it’s not my trip, so I don’t get involved too deeply.

Do you ever get hassled by other surfers dropping in on you on waves?

Sure. It’s the whole animalistic approach. It's inevitable in society these days. As a rule, people don’t seem to be very mellow. They seem pretty animalistic in their approach to living.

It seems that with guys who are heavily into riding waves, if they have a steady lady, she definitely comes second to the commitment to surfing. Do you find this true?

Well, if they’re still there with their man, they seem to accept it pretty well. I think it . . . puts them in their place (laughs).

That's a rather sexist comment. What place do women have?

Uh oh, I don’t want to get into this one (laughs again). Mmm, maybe they don't control the guy so much. It seems to me in present-day society the woman usually is in control of the man too much. That’s the way I look at it anyway, and it shouldn’t be that way.

There should be equality between men and women?

Yeah. There’s equality [already] because they’re both souls. That’s basic. But if two people understand they’re both souls, they must also understand that they both have different propensities. A woman has a propensity to make a home, have children, and take care of them. That’s more or less her fulfillment. I guess, I don’t know. A man has a different role. He’s the guy who gets the money and stuff, more or less tells the woman what to do but—well, not what to do but how . . . like if she has problems, he . . . I don’t really know.

Oh yeah, but not for any length of time. It was too much of a head scene. I couldn’t handle the trip that was laid on me. Wasn’t my style. But it’s different for everyone.

Why do you think there are so few good women surfers?

I really don’t know (laughs). It could be a matter of physical strength, but then women can develop themselves for surfing like anyone. Maybe it’s just not their propensity to be out there fighting the ocean. I don’t know. It’s a pretty crazy question. Actually, it doesn't really interest me. I mean a lot of things just don’t interest me that should.

Do you have any interests outside of surfing?

Yeah, music. I got into music a few years ago, but then I let it slide. But it’s a really nice way to communicate with people. I want to get a guitar soon.

Yeah. Chanting is meditation. Chanting Krishna’s name is meditation, a form of mantra, a transcendental sound vibration. When you chant Krishna’s name, God’s name, he’s there with you. God’s name is no different from his form.

Yes, but it’s not what I’m doing now. I've always looked at Om as the dial tone of the universe (laughter). Yeah, Om is the sound of Krishna's flute.

How did you first become involved with Krishna?

I went to visit a friend who was living in a Krishna temple in Melbourne. I went, quite honestly, out of boredom. And I was attracted to people and the philosophy and the chanting. Especially the chanting. But I wasn’t attracted to the lifestyle. It was a bit foreign to me, to put it mildly. But if you live there and follow the format and the structure and if you’re prepared to surrender to that and follow the instruction given by the spiritual master, then it’s a fact you will advance spiritually. How much I don’t know, it’s up to the individual. I moved in to a temple for two months or so—because I thought it was the right thing to do. But I wasn’t happy with the temple way of life. I was a bit lost until I met some people who were like me interested in chanting but didn’t dig the temple lifestyle.

Is temple life rather austere and authoritarian?

Yeah, it is, but it’s one that the temple residents freely chose to lead, which means you find there a mellow and happy group of people who choose to live in that way. I decided to live outside the temple but still follow the instructions of my spiritual master. I’m not neglecting the basic principles of spiritual life in doing so. I don’t want to say it’s better than the other way. The point is, it’s the individual’s decision. If he wants to live in a temple and thinks that’s the best way to advance spiritually, then that’s nice. But what is a temple? it’s a place to be with other people who are attempting to achieve the same spiritual goals. But God isn’t limited to one building. If you do limit him to that, you’re a fool.

Did the Krishna people ever suggest that surfing was self-indulgent?

Yes. And it can be. But surfing to me is my living, it’s my work. That’s where I get my money from.

Why haven’t you surfed for the last two years?

Because I think I just followed along with the mob more or less. I didn’t do too much thinking for myself. Though I'd accepted the Krishna philosophy, I was still part of a large organization [surfing], a number. Gradually I became aware that it wasn't necessary to be part of that group anymore. I also realized that the pleasure of surfing was something I projected onto a wave. Thus the pleasure was inherent in me, something I could tap inside me and thus set myself free. So surfing became secondary to my concern with advancing spiritually. Today I can surf, and I dig it, and I can use my profession as an offering to Krishna. And when I surf, I dance for Krishna.

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