This interview ran in the July 1964 issue of SURFER, just after Edwards won the debut SURFER Poll Awards.

When I was eight years old I used to watch Burrhead and Hammerhead surfing in Long Beach. I watched them from a breakwater where I fished with my mother. I used to tell her that this was what I wanted to do when I grew up. I had a paddleboard that I used around Alamitos Bay. When I moved to Oceanside in 1946, I began surfing on that same paddleboard. I thought it was really going to be easy, because on the first try I paddled all the way out, caught a wave, rode in standing, and stepped off on the beach. I didn’t successfully catch another green-water wave for two years.

Equipment-wise, we were in the dark ages in Oceanside; just way behind what was going on in the Islands or at Malibu. It took us two years, from ’46 to ’48, to figure out that it was better to have a fin and a smaller board. In the meantime, I actually went from a 12-footer to a 14-footer that weighed 90 pounds—eight pounds less than I did. When I discovered that by angling instead of taking the wave straight in reduced the chances of pearling, my fellow surfers called me "chicken" because the idea at the time was to ride straight, and it didn’t count unless you stepped off on the beach. Finally, I wised up and cut down an old plank, and that really got us going.

Mostly at a point a couple of miles south of Carlsbad where they used to make rubber during the war. We named the spot “Guayule” after the name of the rubber. There were other surfers there; to them it must have seemed like I lived on the beach as I was always around whenever they came. They nicknamed me the “Guayule Kid,” and for the next five years it was the only name I was known by.

Just before 1950, I started going to San Onofre, and that's' where I saw my first balsa-fiberglass surfboard. I bought my first “chip” from Bev Morgan in 1950. The guys at Oceanside couldn’t believe it. It was a 7' 10" board shaped by Joe Quigg. This board, along with seeing Mickey Dora at San Onofre, really got things going for me. Mickey was living there at the time, and I surfed with him for a whole summer, which really changed my outlook on riding waves. He was so progressive everyone thought he was nuts—except me. I tried to copy everything Mikey did and later it was difficult for me to break away from his style and develop a style of my own. Sometimes I feel like a two-bit version of Mickey Dora. It’s great to draw on other people’s knowledge and ability, but there comes a time when you have to go off on your own and develop yourself as an individual. This is what separates an artist from the masses of “sheep,” as Mickey calls them.

I’ve never considered surfing a particularly competitive sport. I don’t think contests convey much. No matter how they’re set up or run, they never really give an overall picture of a good surfer. This is because contests, by their very nature—in that each one is held in a particular set of conditions in terms of swell size, wind, area, judges—rule out versatility, which is the most important aspect of ability. Contests never held much interest for me because I don't see what the point is. Although recently contests have been promoted more for public recognition of the sport, so I tend to go along more with them now.

Why did you enter the [1963] Makaha International?

I was invited to participate as a representative of Duke Kahanamoku, who is, in my mind, the greatest surfer of all time. I don’t see how I could have said no to a man like that. It was quite an honor for me. Before I was even born Duke had already realized what should be the ambition of every surfer today. He had traveled all over the world and created goodwill for his country and toward his sport.

What was your impression of the Makaha contest?

I get the feeling they don't really want it to be an international contest. They want a local contest. They want to maintain their status as the founders and center of surfing and they feel like the outside people are intruding. I think that they should take “International” off their contest name.

Will you ever enter the Makaha event again?

I’ll cross that bridge when I come to it.

Recently you entered the Peruvian International Contest. What do you think of their surf?

It’s very much like Southern California in climate and type of surf.

Very good. I was surprised at the high level of surfing there. One of the reasons they invite people from California and Hawaii to surf in their contest is that they feel they're behind and they want to see what we’re doing. I think in the past few years they've learned a lot from the surfers that have been down there. They will have some very talented surfers in the next few years. An interesting sidelight on the Peruvian contest was a contestant from Ecuador. The contestant was a six-foot woman who was comparable to our best women surfers in California.

Their contest is very good. They had some sort of problem in the judging this year — a personal conflict, I believe. This made it a little less organized than it might otherwise have been. Their contest is divided into three separate events. One is a hot-dogging contest, held in the shorebreak. Then on the outside break, they have an ability contest, which is more of what we do here—trying to get the most out of the wave, in terms of maneuvering, maintaining a good position, and just working the wave over. Then they have a big-wave contest at a place called Kon Tiki. Their ideal big-wave ride is where the rider takes off on the biggest wave, stays the furthest back in the curl, and still makes it. They don’t care how you look.

Do you plan to enter contests in the future?

Oh . . . (long pause). It’s embarrassing to be considered a champion surfer because I’m not really a champion. I’ve never won a contest. For commercial reasons it would be valuable for me to win a contest. However, I feel that I'm of more value to surfing on the judging end of things. I've been invited back to Peru next year to help with the judging. Also, I am going to Australia, courtesy of the AMPOL Petroleum Company and the Australian Surfing Association, as a judge. [Note: A few months later, Edwards judged the 1964 World Surfing Championships. He didn't compete.]

Aside from surfing, what other interests or hobbies do you have?

I’m very interested in catamarans. So much so that it comes at the expense of my surfing. This is another reason why I'd rather not enter surf contests. I’m building a catamaran and this takes away from my surfing time so much that I have a hard time keeping in surfing shape. It seems like the only time I'm in good surfing shape these days is when I go on a trip somewhere and get away from the catamaran. Normally I find it hard to stay in top surfing shape with all the competing interests that I have at home.

I work for the Hobie Surfboards building my own style of surfboard called the Phil Edwards Model.

Between surfing, earning a living, and your other interests, it would seem to limit your time at home. What does your wife think of this?

Well (pause) . . . My wife was born in Hawaii and grew up around surfing. She won the Makaha International tandem event one year with Rabbit Kekai. She's very interested in surfing and has come to like catamaran sailing, so I would say everything is working out fine.

I don’t think marriage restricts your surfing. I think as you grow older you become more and more aware of the need to make your way in the world and less interested in spending time on endeavors that are non-profitable.

What do you consider a reasonable age for the serious surfer to get married?

You should have a way of earning a living and there are other practical considerations. I don’t think surfing enters into it.

What changes do you think we will see in surfing in the next five years?

I think with the increasing number of surfers now we are going to see more public acceptance of the sport and it’s going to open up more opportunities for the young people just getting started. There are going to be more open beaches instead of the current trend to kick the surfers out to make room for the swimmers. There’s going to be such a majority of surfers in the water that they’ll set aside more and more area for them. I hope surfing isn’t organized too much. But I do hope they will make it more open for people who want to surf.

You have been selected by thousands of SURFER readers as the greatest surfer in the world. What do you think of this?

Part of its ability, part of its publicity. It’s certainly not from any competitive achievement. I’m not the greatest on any particular wave. I’m sure there are guys who get better rides every day than any particular ride that I may get on the same day.

You’re an advocate of one particular style of riding. Would you explain that style?

In talking about the Peruvian contest earlier I mentioned three divisions in their contest: big wave riding, ability, and hot-dogging. I consider myself in the ability class. I recognize that there is a hot-dogging style and a big-wave riding style. I feel that a compromise will be reached someday that will be just ability. You can’t have big wave contests all the time because the waves are not always there. You cannot have just hot-dogging contests because it would turn into a circus. There is nothing else to choose but ability.

You ride all sizes of surf. What size do you prefer?

It doesn’t matter to me except that I feel in big waves—really big waves—the thought of getting shoved onto a reef or jammed down a blowhole takes away from what otherwise might be a very thrilling experience. I feel that Sunset Beach on a medium-size wave, not a big wave where you are in danger of losing your life, is the most ideal place to ride. There’s ample water there so that you don’t get dashed into the bottom. It’s not like the Banzai Pipeline where you know darned well you’re going to bounce off the bottom. You can be reasonably sure at Sunset, if you do make a mistake, that there will at least be a cushion between you and the bottom. As long as it’s not threatening to close out at Sunset you can have really good rides without the danger of being killed. It’s frightening and foolish to go out there on a big day when it’s threatening to close out.

I first went to the Islands in my junior year in high school. I lived with Buzzy Trent and Walt Hoffman. They introduced me to Sunset Beach. I couldn’t believe it.

I must have felt something like that, but I was so enthusiastic about riding that it overshadowed everything else.

Who do you think the outstanding surfers will be in another four or five years?

I’m not sure. We're all waiting for the guys that started with the surfing boom to develop. Right now the guys who have surfed for ten or 15 years are still on top. I keep wondering if enough time has passed for the newcomers to break through. I think one of the problems may be that they lack the background of having to learn the hard way on the heavy boards. Surfing just doesn’t seem to mean as much to them. It doesn’t seem to attract the type of person now they way it did in earlier days. Those that got into surfing in the heavy board age were more individualistic.

That’s always been easy for me to answer. When I started I followed Mickey Dora and I don’t care whether he’s liked or not, to my mind he’s a very talented surfer. He’s able to ride big waves as well as small waves. He’s one of the few people that can cover the overall picture. Mickey's not as good in big waves as the big-wave riders, but he can make a presentable showing in big surf whereas most big-wave riders cannot make a presentable showing in small surf. A lot of the good hot-dog surfers are so specialized they can only slide one way. They’re so used to pointbreak rights they can’t even go left. I definitely give it to Mickey Dora for versatility.

Can you talk about some other top surfers?

Ricky Grigg is very good in big waves but hasn’t bothered with small waves recently. If he wanted to, he could, but his interest isn’t in small waves. Midget Farrelly is doing a good job covering all size ranges and types of breaks; I consider him one of the finest surfers. Nat Young is another Australian who’s really developed. I think Australia will be turning out many top surfers in the future. The kids here [in California] have so many fancy cars and things to do that their interests are diverted. In Australia, the kids will spend more time surfing and this will produce good surfers.

What would you think of a professional surfing circuit with cash prizes?

I think that question is a little ahead of itself.

Are you in favor of top surfers exploiting their name commercially, as is done in baseball and football?

Until recently surfing hasn't been accepted by the public and we have surfed on our own dime. Opportunities are coming up for commercial work now and I guess I’ve made as much money as anyone on ads and so forth—though the money involved is negligible so far.

Do you think surfers involved in that sort of thing should be eliminated from our amateur contests?

Almost every top surfer today is by Olympic standards a professional. He has received payment in one way or another for being a surfer. This would automatically make him ineligible for any sport in the Olympics. If you are a professional in one sport, you are ineligible for the Olympics in any sport. This means that I could not compete as a sailor in the Olympics.

You put a lot of time into surfing and building your reputation. Was it worth it? If you had it to do all over again, what would you change?

When I started, there was no market. I just did it because I liked it so much. I started sailing even before I started surfing, but I dropped sailing when we moved away from Alamitos Bay to Oceanside. Now that I’m back with sailing I wish I would have continued to sail while I was surfing. The two sports enhance each other. But no, I wouldn't change anything. I wouldn’t trade those early years of surfing without the crowds for anything.

[Photos: John Severson, LeRoy Grannis, Bruce Brown]

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